Re:Notes from the Ranger Offic Chris10686 04/16/94
Re:Lottery system EdJ111047 04/16/94
Re:Whats up? BHague 04/16/94
Re:Whats up? BHague 04/16/94
Scouting Forum? Kyle14 04/17/94
Re:Scouting Forum? MMGII 04/17/94
Re:Scouting Forum? Kyle14 04/18/94
Re:Lottery System? HighAdvent 04/18/94
Scouting & Backpacker HighAdvent 04/18/94
First Timers MARHABA 04/18/94
Scouting Forum\Philmont MMGII 04/19/94
Re:Scouting Forum\Philmont MASONA 04/19/94
Regarding Baldy SALMtMen 04/20/94
Re:Regarding Baldy MMGII 04/20/94
NEWSGROUP: REC.BACKCOUNTRY Rogerr1005 04/22/94
Re:Regarding Baldy IreneP7147 04/24/94
Re:Scouting Forum? Chris10686 04/24/94
Philmont Mike267 04/30/94
Subj: Whats up? 94-04-08 16:54:22 EDT
From: MMGII
I have never benn there myself(yet), but I have a good freind who is the new Chief Ranger there and we are interested in starting a forum. I have the technology and he has the knowledge. Between the two of us we thought it would be fun, for him because he loves the place, and for me because I want to go there and can hopefully learn something
Subj: Re:Whats up? 94-04-08 20:21:44 EDT
From: Douglas274
I think it would be a great idea, as it can help first time crews get answers about gear, travel and experiences from past trekkers to Philmont. I have been there 4 times in the last 10 years with my boys from western Massachusetts. Even the information given out by Philmont can't cover everything.
This past year was a good one as we went by train during the "big flood" on the Mississippi. I wasn't even sure of transportation until the night before we left. Amtrak called and notified me that all trains were cancelled! Of course we had plan "B'' ready with plane reservations across the river. With a forum, crew leaders can keep in touch and get info from those who have already been there and who can dole out a ton of info about their experiences.
Make sure you have good rain gear and warm cloths if you go late in the season during the monsoon season (August) Ran into 2" of hail on our way to Mt. Phillips. It will be cold up there if you're not prepared. Our ranger said we wouldn't need heavy clothing, but from past experience I knew we would.
Subj: Scouting Forum 94-04-09 01:14:01 EDT
From: MaxwellP
I think an exchange of ideas and information about Philmont is a great idea, but you will get more activity if you transfer this idea to the Scouting forum. Only a small portion of Backpacker fans (count me as one) are also Scouts or Scouters and have been to Philmont.
Subj: Re:Whats up? 94-04-09 09:27:47 EDT
From: SRChilds
My wife and I are taking 8 scouts from our troop to Philmont this July for our first time. Would be glad to post impressions and answer questions when we get back. Glad Philmont is a subject area!
Subj: Re:Scouting Forum 94-04-09 09:57:02 EDT
From: EdJ111047
I have been to Philmont in 93 and am planning on returning in 95. I have hiked many different areas including the Sierra's and other areas of Western United States and found Philmont one of the best.
Does American on Line have a Scouting Forum? I am a Scoutmaster of a troop of 60 scouts and would be interested in knowing whereto find this forum and how to get there. Ed in San Diego, Ca.
Subj: Re:Scouting Forum 94-04-09 20:17:31 EDT
From: Rnleggett
Use the keyword "scouting" under the go to keyword.
Subj: Re:Whats up? 94-04-10 09:02:39 EDT
From: KAWolff
I will be taking 18 scouts to Philmont at the end of July, as my first southwestern and mountianous backpacking journey. With the exception of our weekend training hikes around southern Ohio, it will also be the first hike for all of my 14-15 year-old scouts. Any specific recommendations from more experienced Philmont travelers on specific items to be sure to take or leave home.
Also, how about suggestions for getting the gear there on the train. Is handing a pack loaded for the trail over to Amtrak a good idea?
Subj: Notes from the Ranger Office 94-04-10 23:18:22 EDT
From: MMGII
Hello Folks,
I'm glad to have a chance to swap stories and ideas again this year. Last spring I started a Philmont BB on Prodigy and thought that would be the end of it. Lo and behold a pal here at school started this discussion. The discussion topics on the Scouting board are full, so try to open a topic up there when you have a chance. Eventually it will work. For now, I'll introduce myself. My name is Chuck. I'll be the Chief Ranger at Philmont this summer and I'm glad to have the chance.
I have bunches of experiences from different treks like Mountain Treks, and Rayado Treks. The fact remaining throughout the five summers I've had the pleasure of working at "The Ranch" is that the best part about being there is working with the people. It probably has something to do with the land. Just about everything that went on in the American west went on in the Cimarron area. Colfax County tends to bring out the most in people and every summer adds a beautiful new chapter to the history of the area and of Scouting in general. Anyway, tell a pal about this discussion. The more folks, the more the fun. Let's hear from some crew leaders. Let's hear some questions about gear, weather, terrain, emergency procedures, etc. I look forward to this a bunch!
In response to notes already up, here we go. I do know how wet and chilly it can get on Mt. Phillips -- BRR! Yep, the rainy season is in August. It can rain any time, though, and the dualism falls between how many warm clothes are enough vs. how much you want to carry up and down mountains for two or three weeks. Most crews fare pretty well and manage to have fun anyway. Nothing like a game of puddle jumping when folks are soaked and close to camp. Oh yes, much fun. Welp, all for now.
Yours in Scouting,
Chuck
Subj: Re:Kawolff Train to Philmont 94-04-11 21:48:19 EDT
From: Douglas274
Have used the train 3 times without to many problems, except for schedule delays. Just hope there's no flood this year! You'll be loading and unloading the packs yourself. The trains, west, out of Chicago have baggage space right on your car. East of Chicago, you load the gear in the baggage car and you'll carry your gear between trains. If you have a layover in Chicago, there are large lockers to store your packs for sightseeing. Also see the Mess Steward when you get on the train and make eating arrangements with him. He'll generally accomodate your crew to an early seating before the rush.
Subj: Lottery system 94-04-13 11:49:11 EDT
From: RHaar
Any comments about the new lottery system for registration?
Our troop went to Philmont in '92 and are planning another trip in '95. Planning that far in advance is hard enough without the unpredictability of this lottery. Waht was wrong with opening
up the phone lines on a published date and letting it be first-come-first-served. At least when the phone call was done, we knew we had the dates and trip nailed down.
- Bob
Subj: Re:Notes from the Ranger Office 94-04-16 00:44:44 EDT
From: Chris10686
Definitely keep this forum going. I'm sure there are a few former scouts like me who still have a love of hiking, but wouldn't be too likely to get on the Scouting forum. I went to Philmont in '76 (predominantly staying South and Central), and look forward to the day when I have the time to get involved with Scouting again -- probably when I have teenage kids.
For those of us who remember Philmont fondly, is there any chance that BSA would consider opening the ranch to former Scouts who would like to return "off-season". I'd love to check it out in early-mid September or late May. (Heck, I'm enough of a glutton to want to try it in Winter, but I'm not sure how big the snow drifts get around there.)
Regards,
Chris Sandlund
(formerly troop 876, Alexandria, Virginia -- currently editor, San Francisco, CA)
Subj: Re:Lottery system 94-04-16 10:04:52 EDT
From: EdJ111047
About the lottery system.... It's now April 18th and I still don't know if we've been given a date or not....
Ed
Scoutmaster in San Diego
Subj: Re:Whats up? 94-04-16 16:10:48 EDT
From: BHague
I launched a life-long love of backpaking as a scout at Philmont. In terms of what to take, here is the greatest piece of advise I every received on backpacking--directly from our Philmont leader:
Subj: Re:Whats up? 94-04-16 16:14:27 EDT
From: BHague
Let's try that again... here's the advise: make two piles of gear--one you absolutely must have to survive, the second you'd like to take if you had the room and the strength. Then eliminate the second pile, cut the first one in half, and that's what you take along. If there's anything I wish I'd done differently, it was taking better rain gear. When it rains at Philmont, life can get miserable pretty fast. Have a great trip.
Subj: Scouting Forum? 94-04-17 02:37:31 EDT
From: Kyle14
Why don't you guys use the Scouting forum for all this talk about Philmont? Just type Scouting for the keyword and you'll get there.
Subj: Re:Scouting Forum? 94-04-17 20:13:33 EDT
From: MMGII
We tried to open a folder in the scouting area. It is full so here was the next best place.
Subj: Re:Scouting Forum? 94-04-18 00:56:12 EDT
From: Kyle14
Maybe you should talk to the people in charge of the scouting forum. To be quite honest with you there are some people who find scouting's stand on certain issues (I think you know what I mean) a little offensive. Lots of my friends are scouts and I like them fine. I just can't support the organization anymore. Thanks for your consideration.
Subj: Re:Lottery System? 94-04-18 15:15:16 EDT
From: HighAdvent
It's difficult to plan a trek, keep the Scouts' spirits up, pre-plan your fundraisers (for a trip of this nature), and be fully prepared with this lottery system. Most crews, especially ones with limited resourses, need a good year to prepare for a trek. How can they do it with only 6 months or less? It cost us $800.00 per participant on our '93 trek, but we had the money available. What about an inner-city or rural troop where resourses are extremely limited!
Subj: Scouting & Backpacker 94-04-18 15:55:39 EDT
From: HighAdvent
The Scouting Forum is nice, but I don't think it offers enough to the Scouts and their leaders who want to do something more than what's offered on this forum, especially in the form of more advanced activities in the out-of-doors . When you can't even start up a PHILMONT panel discussion, I think it's terrible. I joined Scouting for the outdoor progran and the reason most boys do as well. I think it would be a great idea to start up a discussion on getting all of America's youth interest in the wilderness. There's no better place then right here on Backpacker. Philmont, and the other national and regional high adventure Scout bases are a great place for youths to learn "more'' , from experienced Scouters. But what about the youth that don't join Scouting. Being an avid Scouter, as well as an avid out-doors-man, I can offer my expertise to my Scout Troop on the normal Scouting outdoor program, but can offer a degree of high adventure to my older boys on out yearly cold weather Hi-Adventure treks to the N. H. White Mountains, which is not a place for the average "camper" to go without the proper training. Here Backpacking magazine could help get out youth off the streets and into the woods! Here's three great resourses (Scouting, experienced backpackers and Backpacker Magazine) that can work together for Scouting and non-Scouting as a great information sourse to those who would like to try a wilderness adventure on their own or on a programmed one like Souting offers.
Subj: First Timers 94-04-18 18:16:29 EDT
From: MARHABA
Ditto! the advice from the guy who said cut the "essentials" pile in half. The other "best advise" is to get in as many hours carrying loaded packs as you can in the last 2 months. Meet at least once a week and carry the packs an hour or more. A key skill is breaking camp and being on the trail early to take the pressure off to push hard to make the program at the next camp. Be fit, travel lite, stay dry and you'll avoid the big bugaboos that usually take away from the fun.
I think some of you mis-understood when I said that we attempted to start a Philmont forum under scouting. It's not that the topic was disallowed, but rather the physical space (perhaps) was unavailable there on AOL. We tryed and were told that the "area" was full. Perhaps AOL limits the amount of open discussion per topic, Who knows? And as some one in this area said Philmont is a High Adventure camp and Backpacker is a High Adventure magizine. The two go togather fairly well
I would just like to thank you for opening up this topic. I went to the Ranch in '86, '88, and '90. Couldn't go in '92, but kept my foot in as Contingent organizer. Looking forward to '95 (if our contingent gets selected). I, too, wish that there had been a better way, but I trust that other options had been explored before settling on this one.
The weather changes RAPIDLY out there. Be prepared to don raingear at a moment's notice. Expect hail anywhere in the high country. Upper Clark's Fork, site #13, still brings shivers. (Several inches of rain/hail and a campsite at the bottom of a hill don't mix.) Mt. Phillips was also very cold and we slept on a hail-covered campsite.
Don't miss a food pick-up. It can make for a very long day (1990: Upper Bench. Crew Leader "discovers" that we don't have enough provisions for trip to Miranda and beyond. Crew Leader, Asst. Crew Leader, and Adult (moi) deadhead back 5 mi. to Ute Gulch commissary while others proceed. After close to 20 miles in morning rain and afternoon heat, we all arrive at Miranda to prepare for the next morning's (5:00) walk up Baldy. Some of us didn't wake up in time.)
I LOVE IT! Everyone needs to experience the great outdoors of Philmont. The star-filled skies at night, the sounds of coyotes in the distance, wild turkeys, gorgeous wildflowers, and the brotherhood of Scouting make it a truly unforgetable experience.
Mac Aldrich
Subj: Regarding Baldy 94-04-20 02:22:38 EDT
From: SALMtMen
I'd just been introduced to this America Online thing when I came across the Philmont forum while "browsing the service". There's no one way to sum-up my experience at Philmont. I was there almost four years ago, when my troop explored the Northwestern portions of that wilderness, including Mt. Baldy. Philmont memories still come to my mind even in the midst of developing interests in the likes of NOLS and an array of other adventures. My compadres and I still joke about a friend (who's possibly part horse) that humped approximately 70 pounds of lunches and dinners for 12 to the top of Baldy--all the way from Miranda Camp--and still ran back home that eve to beat rain. He had forgotten his own raingear, even though he had carried everyone elses'. Anyway, just seeing this caused me to recollect a little . . . Just remember (for those who are still reading): an excellent view of Baldy can be seen from atop Wheeler Peak (which I think is outside the boundaries of Philmont, but nonetheless spectacular, and just next door), watch for Black bears, and most importantly--don't go without a Dana Design!
P.S. To anyone reading who hasn't been--be sure to see Baldy.
Subj: Re:Regarding Baldy 94-04-20 15:37:31 EDT
From: MMGII
As a matter of trivia I had "The Mayor of Baldytown" here at my place last night. He told me as far as he was concerned Baldy is one of the coolest places at Philmont
It's hard to believe the Philmont topic is a refugee here from the Scouting forum. That's a little like establishing a "What to Do in Washington" forum and then excluding all discussions of the Capitol and the White House.
Philmont is the best thing that Scouting has to offer. They really "did it right" big time on this area. Many of us cut our backpacking teeth on the banks of the Rayado. So ignore the naysayers. Folks who complain about Philmont have clearly never been there and don't understand the magic.
If you think you've hit the "mother lode" in responses here, you might join the "rec.backcountry" news group (go keyword "news groups"; and then expert add "rec.backcountry" to your list of newsgroups). You can post items on Philmont to your heart's content and never run out of space. You will get back responses not only from AOL folks but also from everybody hooked into the Internet. Some of these people are very sophisticated and helpful (although you will probably get your share of abuse from the non-educated).
There is also a "scouting" newsgroup. But, I personally like the Philmont topic in this area.
Subj: Re:Regarding Baldy 94-04-24 09:27:22 EDT
From: IreneP7147
Well I last saw Baldy in the summer of 1980. God that was 14 years ago and I can still remember the colors of the sunrise and the bite of the wind before the sun came up. Is Miranda still as beautiful as it was then. I have a friend that named his little girl Miranda and if I ever have a daughter I will suggest it to my wife.
Is the warter still cold at French Henry? How about the root beer at Ponil? One day I will return. Hurd
Subj: Re:Scouting Forum? 94-04-24 20:19:38 EDT
From: Chris10686
>>To be quite honest with you there are some people who find scouting's stand on certain issues (I think you know what I mean) a little offensive. Lots of my friends are scouts and I like them fine. I just can't support the organization anymore.<<
Kyle,
Hey, lot's of us aren't too pleased with some of the things that have gone on with BSA lately. Heck, it's given me great insights to what my Roman Catholic friends go through to still practice their faith. (Or try another line of reasoning: I don't like what I see happening in Congress but you don't see me advocating violent revolution.) Still, like them, I think it's better to continue supporting an institution that we can hope to change in the future when the current leaders pass from the scene. It ain't perfect, but at least we can pass on to another generation the *good* things that we remember from scouting. No?
As to the appropriateness of this disucussion group, check out my previous posting. There are lots of former scouts who're still active hikers but have lost contact with scouting (and therefore be much less liking to browse through the scouting forum). This is an excellent location for those planning a trip to Philmont who could benefit from the knowledge of those erstwhile scouts who've been there and might have insights to give.
- Chris
Subj: Philmont 94-04-30 07:01:49 EDT
From: Mike267
I hiked Philmont in 83'.Was one of the best experiences in my life. My advice to those going is to prepare by pre-hiking lots and lots. If you live in a sea-level type area,beware of the altitude,you get tired twice as quick. Keep your eyes open and see one of the most beautiful places on Earth. I hiked through Ute Meadows,Ponil,Indian Writings to name a few. I would be happy to correspond with others who have been there or who are going.
